One to Ponder

[gwendolyngrace]

Okay, so here's something to think about.

The other night, Joel and I were talking about living alone and the high (IMO) density of people who talk to themselves when they live alone or spend a lot of time alone. In the Gweniverse, I'm never completely alone, though, because character-muses constantly provide the opposing voice in my internal dialogue. Like Tom Hanks' character in Cast Away anthropomorphizes "Wilson," I think we as humans need someone to bounce off of, even when that someone is a figment of imagination.

So we're talking about this, and I was saying that it's often characters from books, or TV or movies, and I mentioned how driving is a huge opportunity for this process, and how often these days Will Laurence or Temeraire are my co-pilots (Temeraire because he's a very fun conversationalist and Laurence because he occupies that lovely "straight man" capacity), and that when Granby's in the back seat it's even worse.

And Joel, who's just read His Majesty's Dragon, said he didn't know who Granby was - because, as he put it, he'd "never heard the word pronounced." I said that he'd read the book - he should recognize the name.

And then he said that he never internalizes the pronunciation of proper nouns and names while he's reading things.

I find that fascinating and impossible. I asked about maps: Does he "hear" the pronunciation of streets and such when reading the map? No. He "sees" them as glyphs and then looks for the glyph that matches the picture in his memory.

Bzuh?

So... what we want to know is how anomalous that is, or whether I'm the one who's odd in always figuring out how to say people and place-names when I'm reading. I've known for a long, long time that I prefer to "hear" the words spoken in my head as I read - it's one of the reasons I'm a slow reader - but is that "normal" or is it more normal to take in the word without an attempt to "speak" it and then simply recognize it on repetition? Is it a difference in thought? Teaching? Or actual brain process?

Discuss.

Comments

[pandarus.livejournal.com]

They're both perfectly normal; with English, that whole sound-it-out-in-your-head is a useful strategy for decoding unfamiliar words, and a lot of learners do well with phonics; however, with languages like Japanese you have to learn each shape individually, rather than considering it as a string of sounds - a significant number of kids being taught English don't do well with phonics because they're doing this learn-the-shape-of-the-word-and-attach-that-to-a-sound-in-the-air thing, rather than breaking it down into a string of sounds. That's just how their brains happen to work - and if they were learning a different kind of language, it wouldn't register as an issue.

It's not a difference in teaching - it's a difference in learning style. (Are you familiar with Multiple Intelligence Theory? That goes into more detail - but even without breaking learning styles down into a wide range, it's standard practice for teachers these days to actively cater to VAK - that's to say, incorporating Visual, Auditory and Kinaesthetic elements into every lesson, to cater to these three main ways of learning.)

I generally "hear" words in my head too - except when it's a particularly tricky proper name in an unfamiliar language, at which point I can resort to mentally thinking "that word there, with the Ns and Xs and not enough vowels" and not knowing how to say it.

[flourish.livejournal.com]

I don't always figure out the proper way to say them, but I also wouldn't be thrown by a name like 'Granby.' It'd have to be weirder. Mayan names? I know them when I see them, but when they're said? No clue.

[embroiderama]

Oh yeah, I hear words in my head, hard to imagine not doing it that way. Now, I often pick an entirely WRONG pronunciation for proper names (or for unfamiliar words when I was a kid), and then it's almost impossible to mentally switch to the correct pronunciation. And I guess it does make me somewhat of a slow reader, at least when I read for pleasure. I *could* fly through just scanning things but that's not the way I enjoy reading a story.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

And then he said that he never internalizes the pronunciation of proper nouns and names while he's reading things.

He's not an aural processor (probably visual or possibly kinesthetic). You, on the other hand, are almost certainly an aural processor.

It's simply a matter of what sense is dominate. People vary, with most being visual or aural to one degree or another -- primary kinesthetics are not quite as common, but still normal. It's probably intrinsic to each individual brain, though I'm sure teaching can push one to expand a non-dominant sense.

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

I hear ALL. THE. WORDS.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I get hung up on my own internal pronunciation so much that I won't recognize a name if someone says it just a little bit off. Typical work conversation:

"One of your clients is here. Elizabeth Dackrey."
"...I don't recognize that name."
"You just saw her yesterday!"
"I'm quite sure I saw no one named Elizabeth Dackrey yesterday."
"Hang on...wait. Liz--Lizabeth--"
"Lisbeth DeCree! Oh, yeah, her."

But I can't extrapolate the name from the mispronounced name, even when they're really close and I just saw the person the day before. Part of it is because I see the name in my head, too, and when the spellings don't match that just confuses the issue further.

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

Okay. On further thought, I should add that I, too, am a slow, high-comprehension reader. But. And? I am terrible at names when I'm introduced to people: I do very, very, very much better after I've seen the name written down, so for me both things are needed in order to do either very well.

I hear just fine, btw. But it's very easy for me to tune out information that's coming to me just as sound--baseball on radio, for instance. We've long gotten our news via NPR, but I probably hear/retain half the stories, especially if there's anything else I'm doing or reading at the same time. I've taken to listening to Slate gabfest podcasts, in part to try to improve my attention to input that's just auditory.

A final piece of the puzzle from my own experience. I'm a person who can tune everything else out while reading, so much so that my spouse can find it difficult to break through if I'm reading.

I'm not sure all those pieces work in the same direction, but it seems to me that they are all parts of the puzzle.

[grouchyoldcoot.livejournal.com]

I spoke to erink today, and she seems to have the same pattern as me- and the same trouble with people's names. And I think I have an example for the name Granby. I see 6 letters, starts with G, ends with y, and for the rest it almost doesn't matter what order they're in.

Oh, and do you remember talking about equations? About how you read them left-to-right and I absorb them as a gestalt? I think a chessboard is a good analogy- an equation is like a chessboard. You don't read it; you notice familiar patterns.

[erinrua.livejournal.com]

Hi thar! Peeking in from long lurk-dom ...

I think I tend to at least invent some sound in my head that represents pronunciation. ;) But if, such as a Slavic or invented sci-fi name that simply has too many consonants for me to suss out, I'll simply register the name as a sort of glyph or "shaped letters" in my mind. I see that set of symbols and instead of a sound, I just recognize the letters as the name.

But the other 99% of the time, I "hear" the name, even if I must make up a pronunciation. I retain far more from reading than listening. If I can read AND listen, that's the best.

Numbers, on the other hand, I tend to visualize as shapes ... ;-)

[nearlyvalkyrie.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah - big VAK example.
I had a similar event in my first Mythology class in High School. I'd been a HUGE fan of it since getting d'Aulaire's Greek Mythology at about 7 or 8, and Bullfinch's at 9. So at 10th grade I was thrilled to have a chance at a Mythology section in English class. The first few days left my head reeling, because I already knew all these stories, but the names didn't match. Well, some like Zeus and Apollo and Diana are easy enough, but Hepheastus threw me for a total loop. Then I realized I'd never had anybody to talk to about these characters. I could recognize it instantly in print, but not out loud. Serious head games for me.

In more recent years, designing adult learning, I found out about Visual-Auditory-Kinesthetic. All my surveys put me at very high Visual, some kinesthetic, and barely register auditory. That always struck me as odd, given how much music is a part of my life, until I realized even music gets processed into kinesthetic blocks in my head. If I'm talking to someone about thirds vs fourths, I feel it more in my fingers than I hear it in my head. Playing with chords, I feel it in the spacing - does this note need to be closer or further away from the other? If I'm trying to learn lyrics or a script, I have a hard time picking it up just listening to it (or I'll listen to it a million times in a row - effective, but slow). I need to write or type it by hand (kinesthetic) and look at the words, verses, structure etc (visual).

Brain processing is fun ;-)



Hmmmm. I wonder if there's a higher incidence of absolute pitch in auditory learners, and relative pitch in kinesthetic learners....

[psychic-serpent.livejournal.com]

This also reminds me of the first time I realized that there were people who said "Hermy-own" instead of Her-MY-oh-nee. ;) (And the shock of those people that it wasn't Hermy-own was kind of amusing.) But I still don't understand people who repeatedly type "Sirus" for Harry's godfather. I read that as "Cyrus" and that AIN'T the dog-star. ;)